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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:38 pm 
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Great stuff and a really good read so far…

I’m a total noob at this; but I do have a fmic, WB02, and the ability to log like crazy if I can help capture data to support this effort in anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 11:12 pm 
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Zeroing my Tipin Map today helped tremendously, however I did have to spend a little time working on my MAF values particularly between 1.3V and 1.8V on the MAF to get it real smooth when in closed loop. I guess this was the area in closed loop which Tipin was screwing me up the most.

Remember however I am using a blow-through and my ECM is only controlling my Closed Loop while my UTEC runs speed density the rest of the time. So I don't know how it will work on Open-Loop.

I would also say zeroing your tipin table will make MAF tuning CLosed Loop alot easier. Then put the values back and adjust from there.

I hope this will help somebody.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:35 pm 
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I figured I would give this a bump as I feel that the tip in table is really making me run rich during the attempt to spool up earlier..

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:29 am 
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TheShad0w wrote:
I figured I would give this a bump as I feel that the tip in table is really making me run rich during the attempt to spool up earlier..


I noticed the same. At cruise (Close Loop that is), If I apply only 3% to 5% more throttle, my AFR reading will richen up quickly from 14.7 to high 13s. I need it a little lean at low throttle tip-in to help faster spool up and, of course, save gas.

My fuel set up is pink injectors and walbro, stock fuel Pressure Regulator.

Thinking about reducing those small delta values 3-4% down.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:16 am 
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Did you reduce the tip-in table when you installed the pinks? If not, try reducing the table by 565/420= 1.345, so 34.5%.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:06 pm 
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
I found that raising the mininmum tip-in enrichment values helped a lot with modded stock injectors. raising the minimum tip in % from 1.2 to 1.8 and the minimum calculated value from 354 to 400 or so really smoothed out the low rpm/low load bucking. The car doesn't hesitate or buck anymore when you lift and press the throttle quickly. I just couldn't get any of the values in the tip in table to improve anything consistently, but changing the minimum activation values really made a huge difference.

I found that adjusting my latency and injector scalar further helped the part throttle driving as well as spoolup.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:49 pm 
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isis wrote:
I found that raising the mininmum tip-in enrichment values helped a lot with modded stock injectors. raising the minimum tip in % from 1.2 to 1.8 and the minimum calculated value from 354 to 400 or so really smoothed out the low rpm/low load bucking. The car doesn't hesitate or buck anymore when you lift and press the throttle quickly. I just couldn't get any of the values in the tip in table to improve anything consistently, but changing the minimum activation values really made a huge difference.

I found that adjusting my latency and injector scalar further helped the part throttle driving as well as spoolup.


I have that same problem and trying to get rid of it. I don't know if doing what you said with pink injectors will yield the same result. Will try and let everyone know.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:03 pm 
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After I got my injector scalar and latency values worked out a bit, I lowered the thresholds back to stock and reduced my tip in table across the board by about 35%. I think my next step may be to reduce it further but I'm really liking what I've seen so far. Getting the injectors set correctly helped way more than any of the tip in values, so I don't think my solution applies to your problem so much. Lowering the tip in values did seem to help initial spool a bit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:20 pm 
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Spec C Wannabe wrote:
TheShad0w wrote:
I figured I would give this a bump as I feel that the tip in table is really making me run rich during the attempt to spool up earlier..


I noticed the same. At cruise (Close Loop that is), If I apply only 3% to 5% more throttle, my AFR reading will richen up quickly from 14.7 to high 13s. I need it a little lean at low throttle tip-in to help faster spool up and, of course, save gas.

My fuel set up is pink injectors and walbro, stock fuel Pressure Regulator.

Thinking about reducing those small delta values 3-4% down.


I'm also having this problem but worse. When applying 5% throttle during slow driving, my AFR will richen from 14.7 to 11.5 instantly. I'm just wondering if this is a closed loop switch that needs to be adjusted or a tip-in issue. shouldn't the transition from lean to rich occur more gradually? I'm tuning my '02 4eat, w/ 16g, modded injectors.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:28 pm 
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I have found that the stock tip-in tables are not correct. For right now, I have my CL/OL delays set to 100. This keeps the ecu in CL a little bit longer so that the ecu can make the proper fuel adjustments using the front O2 sensor.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:39 pm 
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jets02wrx wrote:
Spec C Wannabe wrote:
TheShad0w wrote:
I figured I would give this a bump as I feel that the tip in table is really making me run rich during the attempt to spool up earlier..


I noticed the same. At cruise (Close Loop that is), If I apply only 3% to 5% more throttle, my AFR reading will richen up quickly from 14.7 to high 13s. I need it a little lean at low throttle tip-in to help faster spool up and, of course, save gas.

My fuel set up is pink injectors and walbro, stock fuel Pressure Regulator.

Thinking about reducing those small delta values 3-4% down.


I'm also having this problem but worse. When applying 5% throttle during slow driving, my AFR will richen from 14.7 to 11.5 instantly. I'm just wondering if this is a closed loop switch that needs to be adjusted or a tip-in issue. shouldn't the transition from lean to rich occur more gradually? I'm tuning my '02 4eat, w/ 16g, modded injectors.


You just described my symptoms exactly - are you running the stock intake?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:04 pm 
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TheShad0w wrote:
You just described my symptoms exactly - are you running the stock intake?


Yep... stock intake with oem filter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:06 pm 
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What point are you guys judging your A/F ratio when doing tip in? For a split second when I tip in my air fuels go to 18:1 then to 13:1 then it kinda bounces around. Then my car hestiates and like boggs when accelerating and changing gears (especially with the A/C on). I have only found one other thread about this and the guy blew his motor so he never figured it out (go figure). Its almost like it holds back then takes off then holds back. My car feels gutless when driving around except for cruising. Its an 06 STi with Deatchwerks 740cc Injectors.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:47 am 
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Mine pretty much does it the minute I hit boost - it could be 1 psi and almost instantly jumps into the 11's. The problem you described is kind of how the car felt when I zero'd out the tip in a test.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Problem to be Cracked: Tip-In (Accelerator) Enrich
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:46 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:27 pm
Posts: 1902
Location: Northern NSW
I was linked this from rexnet, so forgive me for the necromancy :roll:

I have had a brief read through of what many think of the Tip-In Enirchment maps... however, I do believe that quite a few of you have failed to understand exactly what it is. I have been tuning Nissan ECU's for a few years now and I posted this on a Nissan tuning forum a while ago, so my apologies if it references people who are not members here...

Here is the important bit about TE tuning.

Not many of you have probably ever tuned an old carby fed engine? They had what was called 'accelerator pump', which fed in extra fuel when the throttle was initially applied to add extra fuel until the carby jets actually were able to suck in the extra fuel.

Now, think of it this way... your engine is idling away at the very lowest load cell of the fuel map. When you stab the throttle and TPS voltage increases to maximum, then it adds the largest amount of fuel(left TE cell value) Of course, if your already crusing at say mid load figures in 2nd gear and then give it full throttle, there is no way you need the maximum figure, it references the middle figure of the TE map. No if your near maximum load and go that extra TPS voltage to full throttle, it references the right most TE value. Of course, with so much load on the engine you are running a very rich AFR so there is no need for TE enrichment.
Now as Vader has posted in a previous thread, he was getting AFR figures all over the place. The reason being that his TE table was all over the place. Depending on which load cell was being accessed, it varied his AFR from lean/rich.

Hope this makes sense :)

Now, a few people are running modified intake systems with big diameter piping or aftermarket intake manifolds that flow better than stock. This is where TE tuning comes into its stride. By moving the MAF away from the throttlebody and increasing its diameter, you are increasing the delay before the MAF is able to respond. The engine creates a vacuum behind the MAF but draws in a MASS of air before the MAF can tell the ECU that you are consuming much more air. In this case, the figures would need to be increased slightly, although they do tend to run rich from the factory on this map

Look at a few dyno sheets and see how they can run lean at the very far left side when the power/AFR graph when the throttle is initially applied... This does not aid throttle response but adjusting the TE graph fixes this problem. There is no specific formula for modified intakes that I can give you(at the moment)except for trial and error. The same also applies to freer flowing air filters, where the engine can start moving the air with less filter restriction which 'CAN' result in a lower TE figure.

Hopefully, this has helped someone


So many people recalibrating their MAF's needlessly due to failing to understand that they are trying to calibrate something that does not need fixing. The 'airflow' over the AFM element is correct, they are just trying to compensate for the delay in air volume movement(unless the laws of liquid flow dynamics physics has changed recently?)

Less pressure drop across the TMIC core with a better TMIC and you can adjust figures as the airflow 'reaches' the engine faster etc. Of course, a long intercooler piping system with a FMIC means you needs to adjust accordingly as well(add s*** loads of fuel, since the MAF takes a while to register a vacuum behind the MAF moving from part throttle to full throttle changes etc) Throwing the AVCS system into the mix also vastly changes how the T.E tuning works, as your often blowing extra fuel right out the exhaust... with extra oxygen which can promote faster turbo spool. Also, in some Nissans where I have converted to a blow thru MAF, the T.E tables were obviously very lean due to the almost instant MAF response :)
I was even able to provide a injector calculation for larger injectors and what the T.E table should have done to 'repair' the mapping.

I am open to discussion on the topic. I would like to point out that I have ALWAYS modified my T.E tables to reflect the cars modifications. All of my Subaru tunes run stock MAF calibrations, with absolutely perfect tunes(air flow figures spot on etc)

Cheers,
Matt

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