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 Post subject: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:59 am
Posts: 27
I am having big problems with my car and am curious if RomRaider supports logging it?

Had it three times at authorized Subaru dealer but they don´t find the problem and have more or less given up.
Problem comes and goes...and when it accur the car looses power and demand more petrol.
Now when winter has come every cold start the car is EXTREMELY weak, when driving uphill the car have no power at all and even if I lock it on second gear rpm doesnt go over 3000 rpm before the ending of hill.
When cars gets warmer it behaves better but still pretty weak and takes a pretty much fuel.

Googling makes me think of knocksensor problem but need to log the cars to get a clue what´s going on.
I am no mechanic...but maybe RomRider can log and give me or my mechanic something to work with.

Car in made end of 2008, 2009 model.
Forester 2.0 X Auto (Europe)

Thanks in advance!


Last edited by Caper on Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:31 pm
Posts: 1396
Location: Moscow, Russia
RomRaider, ecuExplorer, ecuEdit, evoscan can log your engine.
This is known EJ204 NA engine false knock problem due to intake camshafts over-advanced.

A faulty secondary air system is another problem.

Log the following:

Engine Speed (RPM),Manifold Absolute Pressure (Bar),Air/Fuel Learning #1 (%),Air/Fuel Correction #1 (%),Coolant Temperature (°C),Engine Load (%),Rear O2 Sensor (V),Throttle Opening Angle (%),Mass Air Flow (g/s),Intake Air Temperature (°C),Ignition Timing (°BTDC),Vehicle Speed (KPH),Atmospheric Pressure (Bar),Fuel Injector #1 Pulse Width (ms),Air Flow Sensor Voltage (V),

Accelerator Opening Angle (%),Learned Ignition Timing (°BTDC),

Intake VVT Advance Angle Left (°),Intake VVT Advance Angle Right (°),

Air/Fuel Sensor #1 (Lambda),Air/Fuel Sensor #1 Resistance (Ohms)

Knocking Correction (°)

Look at Learned Ignition Timing (°BTDC), Knocking Correction (°),Ignition Timing (°BTDC)
at 2000-3000 RPM while Intake VVT Advance Angle Left (°),Intake VVT Advance Angle Right (°) are about 45-50 Deg advanced.

Repeat logging just after ecu reset.


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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:24 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:59 am
Posts: 27
спасибо!!

Very useful information.
I have insalled Romraider and ordered a cable yesterday.
Will try to log the things you mention as soon as possible.
Just a though...if I disconnect the knock sensor and connect a 500k resistor instead just to fool the system I have a functional knocksensor, that way it would be possible to see if it really is knocksensor problem??
Or is it harmful to drive without the knocksenor?


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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:09 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:31 pm
Posts: 1396
Location: Moscow, Russia
The ecu will try to over-advance ignition timing that may cause real knocking.
Moreover there is a bug in the code that cause 8bit ignition advance calculations to overflow and as a result the ecu starts to retard ignition while trying to advance.

As a first aid you may try to solder a 2200-3300 pf ceramic capacitor to A9 pin and A29 pin of the ecu connector to decrease the knock sensor signal level since there is another bug in signal conditioning before digital signal processing of the knock sensor signal.

This is the correct place for Russian speaking guys devoted to EJ204 NA engine problems
http://forums.drom.ru/subaru/t1151631546.html

MY06/MY07 has a secondary air system, MY08\MY09 does not. You have one problem less.


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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:59 am
Posts: 27
Thanks for the kind answers!
About the russian forum...dont understand any russian at all, just googled after right word to say thank you for the answer :)

I have yet not logged the car, got the cable today but work nightshift.
Borrowed an Autel 702 though and it can read ignition.
I can see that when I am cruising normally ignition is around 30 degrees, when I give more throttle ignition goes down to 8-9 degress a short while and then sets at around 12-14 degress and car feels very weak.
Is that a sign of knocksensor problem, adjusting ignition when not necessary?

I am not mechanic at all but will try to use a resistor to see what happens.

Again, thank you and greetings from Sweden!


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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:31 pm
Posts: 1396
Location: Moscow, Russia
This is a problem of rattling AVCS that cause a false knock signal.


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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:59 am
Posts: 27
Ok...hard for me to understand all this because I am no mechanic.
If the case is rattling AVCS causing knocksenor to adjust timings, what can I do about it?
I guess a new sensor will do me no good.


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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:34 pm 
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Senior Member

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:31 pm
Posts: 1396
Location: Moscow, Russia
A mentioned above capacitor gives you a chance to postpone hesitation.
ECU reflash with AVCS timing corrected will be a final solution.


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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:44 am 
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Newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:59 am
Posts: 27
I am very greatful for your help.
My authorized Subaru workshop have no clue, they havent even noticed that ignition drops :roll:
Makes me hesitate to even contact them again but reprogramming ECU with corrected timings is way over my head.
Think I can manage to flash and copy since I have pretty decent computer skills but have NO idea how to figure out right timings.

I remember my workshop earlier told me that it´s not possible to program the ECU to an older softwareversion, asked them to do that because my symptoms began after they updated it.
If so...is it possible to reprogram it with corrected timings at all?

My Cal ID is : D25F4EAB

By the way, since you told me about rattling AVCS I locked at second gear today and opened the window.
Gave full throttle several times and a couple of times I heard some rattling but it seemed to come from exhaust system right under where I sit...left steered car.
Havent heard that before but then I never drive like that with the window open :)

I got my cable today and will try log with RomRaider.


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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:31 pm
Posts: 1396
Location: Moscow, Russia
AVCS 50 deg advanced causes mechanical noise intepreted as "knock".

Cured vs Stock calID D25F4EAB AN742 package


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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:59 am
Posts: 27
Today I was testing Romraider and it seems log fine.
Took the car for a drive but this time car behaved pretty decent so logging was no idea.
Could see also that ignition curve was much better this time.
Attaching log file.
Looking in the logger there is an option to read diagnostic codes and there were a LOT of them.
A normal handheld reader gives no fault codes at all.

Will try log when the car feels weak again.


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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:59 pm 
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Senior Member

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:31 pm
Posts: 1396
Location: Moscow, Russia
Try full throttle up hill climbing at 2000-3000 RPM and see LearnedIgnition at VVT around 50 deg.
Do not forget to reset your ecu after that in order to avoid hesitation after this "extreme" driving.


Last edited by Sasha_A80 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:59 am
Posts: 27
Working double shifts this weekend but is off duty next week.
Don´t know if I can log this weekend but will post my results when I am done.
Driving home from work this morning I found a good hill, locked in second gear and gave full throttle.
Heard some rattling noise, car was very weak and rpm went up very slowly until about 3000 and then got stronger.

Will try that hill again with Romraider connected and logging.


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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:22 pm 
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RomRaider Developer

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:49 pm
Posts: 5713
Location: Canada eh!
Caper wrote:
Looking in the logger there is an option to read diagnostic codes and there were a LOT of them.
A normal handheld reader gives no fault codes at all.

Maybe there's something to investigate here, or at least determine which reader is correct so you are not trying to fix a hardware problem in software.
Post up the DTC results.


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 Post subject: Re: Logging Forester 2.0 Petrol Auto?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:23 am 
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Newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:59 am
Posts: 27
Will do so when I have time.
Just arrived home after nightshift, -26 Celsius out and car was in heater.
When going up a hill and trying to gain speed there were a LOT of rattling sounds, sounded really bad and had to let throttle up.
Car was extremely weak.

Is this rattling sounds harmful, if coming because of wrong timings??
Sounded really bad and started to worry about engings health.
Like all the valves were going to come out of the exhaustsystem.

My problems started when they updated software just before 3 year warranty ended.
Before that I had zero problems.


Last edited by Caper on Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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