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 Post subject: Feature request for editor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:52 am
Posts: 154
1) comparing two bins opens a window, which lives by itself. So you can even close one bin, but that window will still be open - I think that is some usability bug. When I first started to use RR, I was confused by it.

2) When editing maps I would like an easy way to see changes from original. Maybe you can show changes from original as tooltip when hovering over the cell. Or maybe some keyboard shortcut could help (for example all table cells with values became with cells with changes from original while I am pressing left shift button). Clicking in 2-3 levels deep submenu is not the easiest way :(

3) I am not sure how RR is able to compare 2 tables with different axis values? What is compared? Cell in column 3 row 2 against cell in column 3 row 2 or cell with column title "5000" and row title "550" against cell with column title "5000" and row title "550"?

4) Save button is confusing. Actually confusing is that it is not here, there is only Save as... button.

5) When editing MS41 bins I was confused, when I wanted to increase value by 0.1 and nothing changed when I pressed the button - no explanation, nothing. Only 0.3 or more worked.

6) If I am changing default value to increase to 0.3 in editor, change the value, then clicking on another table and and clicking back on first table, my 0.3 is lost and default value is instead. So I need to enter 0.3 each time I am switching between tables and trying to increase values by 0.3. Too difficult to edit tables this way.


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 Post subject: Re: Feature request for editor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:21 pm 
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RomRaider Developer

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:49 pm
Posts: 7038
Location: Canada eh!
deni2s wrote:
1) comparing two bins opens a window, which lives by itself. So you can even close one bin, but that window will still be open - I think that is some usability bug. When I first started to use RR, I was confused by it.
It's open so you can click on the tables mark as different and it will take you to that table. So the window needs to stay open so you don't have to compare bins each time you click on a table difference to view.

deni2s wrote:
2) When editing maps I would like an easy way to see changes from original. Maybe you can show changes from original as tooltip when hovering over the cell. Or maybe some keyboard shortcut could help (for example all table cells with values became with cells with changes from original while I am pressing left shift button). Clicking in 2-3 levels deep submenu is not the easiest way :(
Changed cells are shown with a blue or red border. To see the difference from the original you do have to turn on the Table>Compare>Show Changes view. A keyboard shortcut would make this easier to switch to. The tooltip is already set to show the real value of the cell without any display format enforcement.

deni2s wrote:
3) I am not sure how RR is able to compare 2 tables with different axis values? What is compared? Cell in column 3 row 2 against cell in column 3 row 2 or cell with column title "5000" and row title "550" against cell with column title "5000" and row title "550"?
Comparison is by rom and column so you can see the difference in values.

deni2s wrote:
4) Save button is confusing. Actually confusing is that it is not here, there is only Save as... button.
This is by design so you don't overwrite your starting ROM, you need to save to a new file.

deni2s wrote:
5) When editing MS41 bins I was confused, when I wanted to increase value by 0.1 and nothing changed when I pressed the button - no explanation, nothing. Only 0.3 or more worked.
This is probably a function of the definition of the table. Most likely incorrect fine/course increment step values were chosen so you have to click a few times to see the change. This is dependent on the underlying conversion from the raw data format to a human readable format (real values). The steps chosen may not be possible to represent in the raw data type. You can switch your table view to Raw Value to see the raw data type values in each cell. If a real value is 27.03 and the raw value for that cell is 137 then it's not possible to represent a 0.1 change as a raw value. Maybe report this type of behaviour in the appropriate ECU definition thread so it can be corrected.

deni2s wrote:
6) If I am changing default value to increase to 0.3 in editor, change the value, then clicking on another table and and clicking back on first table, my 0.3 is lost and default value is instead. So I need to enter 0.3 each time I am switching between tables and trying to increase values by 0.3. Too difficult to edit tables this way.
What is your User Level set to? Whatever you set will remain until you undo that change or all changes to the table.


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 Post subject: Re: Feature request for editor
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:52 am
Posts: 154
dschultz wrote:
To see the difference from the original you do have to turn on the Table>Compare>Show Changes view. A keyboard shortcut would make this easier to switch to. The tooltip is already set to show the real value of the cell without any display format enforcement.

A keyboard shortcut, which activates that function while hotkey is pressed would be great! All that "turn on the Table>Compare>Show Changes view" is very time consuming (and you have to change it back) and really distracts.

Real world example - I am looking at RR datalogs, to retard ignition angle at places where do I have knocks. So I need to keep in mind: engine speed, engine load, is vanos activated or not (to know which table to use), and retarding angle. So I am finding the correct cell in ignition table and if I see that I already changed it, I need to see by how much, if additional retarding is still required. And if vanos is on, then I need to check both base ignition table and vanos ignition table. While clicking to see changes applied, I already don't remember, which cell and how much should be changed... And then I need to click back to see how it looks in overall picture...

dschultz wrote:
Comparison is by rom and column so you can see the difference in values.

You should display that somehow in RR, otherwise for user that is not very clear. Maybe some warning if row/column headers are different...
dschultz wrote:
deni2s wrote:
4) Save button is confusing. Actually confusing is that it is not here, there is only Save as... button.
This is by design so you don't overwrite your starting ROM, you need to save to a new file.

Bad design. You should follow typical windows apps design - save button always should save my changes to current bin. I don't want to loose my time and attention every time I want to update my changes to select the same file. To not overwrite starting bin, you can make auto backups of previous version.

dschultz wrote:
deni2s wrote:
6) If I am changing default value to increase to 0.3 in editor, change the value, then clicking on another table and and clicking back on first table, my 0.3 is lost and default value is instead. So I need to enter 0.3 each time I am switching between tables and trying to increase values by 0.3. Too difficult to edit tables this way.
What is your User Level set to? Whatever you set will remain until you undo that change or all changes to the table.


I't not about value inside table, it's about value inside values input fields.

RR is the first tuner app I am using, so my findings is about what confuses totally new user. I am quite good at IT things, so I know how things should work in general.

Another thing - I am running RR on Mac computer through VirtualBox Windows image, but 3D views are not working this way, probably because of virtual machine limitations (everything else works fine).


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 Post subject: Re: Feature request for editor
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:59 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:12 pm
Posts: 111
deni2s wrote:
I't not about value inside table, it's about value inside values input fields.

The major and minor incremental values are set per table in the definition. Its quite easy to change those to your preferred values if you always use them.


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 Post subject: Re: Feature request for editor
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:52 am
Posts: 154
Kodename47 wrote:
deni2s wrote:
I't not about value inside table, it's about value inside values input fields.

The major and minor incremental values are set per table in the definition. Its quite easy to change those to your preferred values if you always use them.


What you are saying is almost the same as telling that it is quite easy to tune your ECU in any hex editor.

I am talking about usability issue here. If I change the value in input field, switch to another map and then switch back, I am expecting it to be the same value as I entered before so I can continue to work with that value. I don't want to loose my changes.

Real world example:
1) I want to increase cell value in map1 cell by 5 points. Default value in input field is 0.1.
2) I enter in input field 5 instead of 0.1, and then I recognise that I need to confirm if 5 points increase is enough, so I need to look for value in map2.
3) I am opening map2, default value in input field changes to map2 default value (for example 0.3).
4) I think I am ok with 5 points increase in map1, so I just want to continue with increasing new value, but I already lost it in input field, there is another value and I need to input it again- here goes WTF?! moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Feature request for editor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:32 am 
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RomRaider Developer

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:49 pm
Posts: 7038
Location: Canada eh!
deni2s wrote:
Real world example:
1) I want to increase cell value in map1 cell by 5 points. Default value in input field is 0.1.
2) I enter in input field 5 instead of 0.1, and then I recognise that I need to confirm if 5 points increase is enough, so I need to look for value in map2.
3) I am opening map2, default value in input field changes to map2 default value (for example 0.3).
4) I think I am ok with 5 points increase in map1, so I just want to continue with increasing new value, but I already lost it in input field, there is another value and I need to input it again- here goes WTF?! moment.

Currently a user defined increment value in either the fine or course fields is not remembered across table switching. We can add this to the Editor feature request list. A faster fix my be to have the ECU base definition updated with more realistic fine and course increment values for each field. This would also address the issue where you need to click 3, 4 or 5 times before a change is seen to a cell.


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